DAR no. 39 number plate

[downeastrailfan]

While weeding my jr. high school library, I came across an Eyewitness Book titled "Trains." It looked somewhat interesting, but most of the content is British. While reading the pages on nameplates, there it was: Dominion Atlantic Railway 39 smacked me in the face! It is now scanned and in the wiki (of course!).

The book says "The crown indicates that the railway was the only one in Canada operated with a royal charter." I wonder if this is correct. It's difficult to tell from the photo of second 39, but I think the crown is from her.

Being that this is a British book, I am assuming that the plate belongs in a British museum, possibly the National Railway Museum or a private collection. If that is the case, its a long way from home.

[Dan Conlin]

Great find Matt. I agree it must be with some British collector. Are there no photo credits?
I have never heard the Royal Charter claim - sounds vaguely plausible given the DAR British owners in the early years.

Dan Conlin

[stem]

You got me going with this one.

Check out all the builder's photos. Not one came with a numberplate with a crown on it.

It appears this was another local Kentville additional.

I wrote an email to the British Privy council asking if there was anyway to trace a charter such as the one that may have been issued to the DAR. We'll see if I get an answer.

[downeastrailfan]

P. 6 of Gary Ness' first book shows no. 32 with a crown on her number plate. The wiki shows other steamers with the crown adorned number plate, so it was a common feature on the older steamers. I get what you are saying Steve, about the lack of crowned number plates in builders shots so I agree. They were likely added in Kentville. Could they have been cast in Kentville?

[stem]

They cast the nameplates there so why not the number plates too?

The British Priviy council has no record of an application made in Britain for the DAR. They suggest now looking here in Canada.

"The UK Privy Council Office is responsible for processing the grant of Charters and for considering applications from Chartered bodies to amend the terms of their Charters within the United Kingdom.
The historical records of the UK Privy Council are archived at the National Archives of England and Wales. However we do have some historical registers retained at this Office.
There is a Victorian ledger listing Charters granted since around 1868, but it has no reference to the ‘Dominion Atlantic Railway’.
I have also searched the List Books of the Privy Council. These are basically indexes listing the individual matters dealt with at every meeting of the Privy Council in England. I have searched the List Books covering the period Jan 1893 to Jan 1889, but I could find no reference to a Charter granted to the ‘Dominion Atlantic Railway’.

I can only suggest that as a Canadian Company, the Dominion Atlantic Railway may very likely have been granted a Charter in Canada. The Privy Council Office in London would have no knowledge or record of this as the application and grant of the Charter would have been dealt with in Canada.
You may thereafter wish to make enquiries of the Canadian authorities."

So the chase continues. I do not know who to contact next but I shall find out.

[Dan Conlin]

I am sure that the number plates were cast in Kentville as the DAR machine shop had its own moulding department. They were most likely made by Reg Redden who ran the moulding dept. Here is how the Kentville Advertiser described his retirement on June 2, 1938:

"Reginald R. Redden Sr. who served with the mechanical section in charge of the moulding department since 1912 retired on May 31, having attained the age limit for active service. He completed 26 years doing chiefly moulding and babbiting work and among the many outstanding jobs he performed was that of moulding the all new brass name plates so much in evidence on the D.A.R. locomotives today. His sons Gordon and Reginald Jr. are also valued members of the mechanical staff."

Good initiative checking with the privy council Steve. I wonder if the Royal Charter actually dates back to the W & A days its it began when first incorporated in 1866 as a British company and a royal charter may have enticed British investors.

Dan Conlin

[stem]

I had a similar thought but discarded it. So now that you've mentioned it again, I'll reopen it with you with my initial doubts:

Would the Royal Charter have been transferrable from the W&AR to the DAR?

If the W&AR had a Royal Charter, why did they not show it it some way?

I'll write her anyway but these are my doubts that she will be able to find anything.

[Dan Conlin]

All good points. I am baffled that Woodworth, who would have loved something like this, does not mention it in her book for the W&AR or the DAR. This probably will remain an elusive factoid!

Dan

[hollyhanes]

Could it be that a charter was given to the parent company and DAR was just the Canadian part to the company I remember reading some information on the storm of 1905 and the head people I'll dig it out maybe we could find it by a back door method
Heather
Holly would love that neat story if it can be found

[stem]

I don't think that Royal Charters are transferrable myself. If that were true then for instance Zellers and Home Outfitters might be considered under Royal Charter because of their Hudson Bay Company parentage.

At this point, because we have no further information and can't seem to find any, it's one of those things we just want to remember so that if and when we run across a corellating piece of information we can recognize it and perhaps further the story on this.

Most certainly if you run into anything on this subject we'd be thrilled to know about it!

[downeastrailfan]

Item location found! I contacted the National Railway Museum in York, England. The number plate is in their collection and is currently on display. The wiki has been updated accordingly. http://www.dardpi.ca/wiki/index.php?tit ... _plate.jpg

[stem]

Nice find. Now if we could only find the Royal Charter!!

[Dan Conlin]

Nice sleuthing Matt. Really appreciate the pictures. Interesting to see one with black paint and one with red. (I think the red looks better.) Also great to have two DAR plates preserved in museums. Now if we only had one in Nova Scotia!

Dan

[stem]

Judging from the quality of the haul they made in Smith Falls, there are a more than a few number plates absconded in homes in Nova Scotia.

Can we find a few more? Let the hunt begin.

[downeastrailfan]

What's that about Smith's Falls? Are you referring to the recent bust in Fall River?