Flying Bluenose Flies Again - updated Jan 19 2010

[hecrowell]

I have tried to capture what I wanted with various 10 wheelers and none fit the look of the Flying Bluenose as close as I wanted. The internet is scarce with Baldwin 10 wheelers - don't know why - I think they were very popular from articles that I read.
-Anyway-
I came across this model which is only that - an unfinished model for TS Modeler and after I got looking at it, I believe it will fit my purpose.
The model is by Allen Norton and Tim Muir who by virtue of the readme.txt and readme2.txt included with the package say that it can be used for whatever purpose EXCEPT payware. They also indicate that the readme files be included with any uploads containing the model and finally to please give credit to both of them.
The animations are not done, but after animating landing gear for aircraft, I think I can do that. If not, I simply will find someone somewhere that can lend a hand. Lots of rods, levers, pistons, etc to get tied to those 6 drive wheels.
I have done some preliminary paint work on the engine to see how it will look.....
Judge for yourself
Oh yes - I should mention that the tender id included with the package.

We have pictures on the WIKI at: http://dardpi.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Flying_Bluenose

[stem]

Looks good. I agree however that there is not a 10 wheeler to be found anywhere I've seen that comes close to a single one of CPR's stable.

[hecrowell]

Well - like they say - necessity is the mother of invention so maybe I will have to BUILD one! (someday)

[hecrowell]

OK - So I found one partially built - all the hard stuff done...its in the screenshot above.

Experimented with the Valve Gear animations today. Nowhere near as bad as I thought once you understand what's going on and how all parts tie together. The big issue was for me (a greenhorn) to get a handle on the piecepart names, and found a barrel of information on the net in forums etc.
Now have the animations done (maybe a bit of fine tuning) and thank goodness that once one side is done, PRESTO! so is the other side. She looks pretty neat now with everything turning, moving, wiggling, etc...now I gotta find out how to get her on track for a trial run.

[Paul Charland]

Hi Harold,

You need to download and install a program called PolyMaster... you can find it at:

http://www.thopil.de/

Look for "PolyMaster" on the left, select the 333 KB download.

This is in German and is only partly translated to English. MSTS will only allow about 4000 polygons for rolling stock created in TS Modeler but running your file through PolyMaster can stretch that to over 100,000 polygons... when you are working with round things the polygon count adds up.

Until you do this you will bot be able to bring your model into the Sim, but you might be able to open it in Shape Viewer for a look. SView is in the Trainsim library.

When you get ready to use PolyMaster rattle my cage and I'll explain the steps to getting it to work.

Paul

[stem]

All the class D6a locos were Stephenson valve gears that I can see in the photos. I see your model has Walschaerts valve gears. Once you know the difference it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[hecrowell]

Ok on the valve gear bring Stephenson - that clears up that mystery.

Now - I have downloaded the polymaster program (333k size yoou suggested) and installed it. I did go into the settings tab and clicked the language selector so now my info in the GUI at least displays something I can read.

Now awaiting further instructions from you.

[Paul Charland]

Hi Harold,

1 Open PolyMaster (PM).

2 Select Compress/Decompress .s

3 Go through your files and find the .s (shape) file for your engine (later you'll have to do this for the tender as well).

4 Let the DOS program run then hit any key when it tells you to, it will disappear.

5 In PM, hit the Open button, then find the .s file you just decompressed.

6 I list of all groups of polygons in your file will appear on the left under "Elements", each being given a number based on the number of points in each group. In the upper center under "Subobjects" you will see the number of points the total model has. You need to divide the number of Elements into Subobjects so no subobject has more then 14000 points.

7 If you have say 70000 points that would mean you could divide the Elements into 5 Subobjects (5 x 14000 = 70000) but getting that to work out exactly probably wouldn't happen so you would choose to create 6 Subobjects. In the "All Eliments L 1 =" field enter 6, then a confirmation window will appear and enter Yes (OK, it's still in German). Six fields will appear in the Subobject window with field 1 still having all the points.

8 In the Elements window you will see all the L1 fields are now showing 6, go through starting at the top and change the 6's to 1's. Watch the 1 field under Subobjects change and stop before that number reaches 14000 (if it goes over 14000, change the last 1 to a 2 until the 1 field is under 14000).

9 Repeat this for 2 to 6. If you made a mistake in guessing how many number of Subobjects you need and you need to add more you'll have to start over again.

BIG NOTE... if you have window glazing, or any transparency, this needs to be the last group and be separate from all others. If by the number of points you determine that you need 6, add 1 for the transparency. If you have a layer of transparencies in the right column in the Subobject window, add an "x", this will tell MSTS to read this layer last and your windows with become transparencies and not solids.

After you have or have not placed the x for transparencies....

10 Under the Matrices window, scroll through and see it there are any unnecessary animations in you file, if there are, place an "x" beside them. Note, you may have animations you want to keep, so be careful.

11 On the right, hit the "Delete Needless Anim." button, do this whether you placed or removed any x's in step 10.

12 On the right, hit the "Make LODs/ Subobjects" button.

14 On the right, hit the "Save" button.

15 On the right, hit the "Compress/Decompress" button.

16 Wait for the DOS programm to tell you to hit any key.

17 Exit PolyMaster.

In you engines file you will find two PolyMaster files which you will need to delete. These are uncompressed versions of your drawing and are quite large. If you changed your drawing in TS Modeler and wanted to open it again in MSTS to have a look, you will need to do this all over again (after doing this a couple of times it becomes pretty easy, so other then time it's no big deal). If you leave the two big PM files in your engine's folder PM tends to read them and not the changes you made, so deleting them will insure you are working on your last TSM save.

Might want to print this out. Any questions you know where I'm hiding!

Paul

[stem]

Interestingly all our D4 & D6 photos show Stephenson Valve trains while it’s the D10s that start using the Walshaerts.

Can you see the difference? I find it easy to see the difference right off the bat by the eccentric crank. See this diagram, item no. 1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Walschaert_static.png

If you can’t see that then the whole reverse mechanism above the front driver is another give away.

[hecrowell]

Hi Steve

Well, just my luck - I can understand the linkage system of the Walschaerts, but am having big time trouble with the Stephenson - in particular the sliding valve system and reverser linkage systems. I have looked at pictures, I have looked at animations but still trouble. I guess what's unclear to me is... was it a cam on the main driver axle somewhere that made the rods move or was it an eccentric arm like in the Walschaerts?
Hope you can clarify some of the muddle...in the meatime, I will go looking again.

By the way - have been doing animations for the Walschaerts just for practice - it's a breeze...hope the other is no harder.

[stem]

I thought this was a pretty good page showing all the parts to and the differences between the various valve trains.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/appliances/valvegear.php

[hecrowell]

After all my searching and fussing about building the Stephenson VG, It suddenly occurred to me - why worry? No one will see all that under-the-frame detail anyhow. Besides, it will only increase the poly count which as I understand it must be kept below the 4000 polys mark. It's the visible workings that count. Non the less, I just had to know so I persisted in my search and lo and behold - in the most unlikely place, the answer was found. You see, there is an excellent video on YouTube that shows the workings of the Stephenson Valve Gear in great detail. The driving force is not steam, it is good ;ol air pressure. In case you have missed it it is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLooaqocmM

anyway, I wanted to see how hard it would be to recreate it in MSTS (in case anyone wanted to do it) so I built a working model of the cam arrangement on the shaft of the Drive wheels. I then animated the whole lot and by golly! it actually works. Wasted time? Maybe so, but I learned something that I won't forget.

Put together the rudimentary parts of the Stephenson (minus the cam actuator part) and here is what I came up with. Yes, it needs a few more parts like the sliding valve actuator thingy and the reverser, but I will get there. If anyone can say that this is not a Stephenson arrangement, for Heaven's sake - tell me quick and what changes I need to make before it is too late!.

[stem]

From the outside, definitely a Stephenson. You may not need the eccentrics on the inside, but it isn't going to look right if the linkage rods from the eccentrics to the link aren't there. Even though the eccentric rods are behind the drivers, the link is fairly visable don't you think?

[stem]

I found this site from whence many an animated valve train diagram has come from. Best of all, the software is public domain. He started this program on MS-DOS in 1985!

http://www.tcsn.net/charlied/

[hecrowell]

strangely enough, I ran across that site yestersterday while I was fretting about the fact that for whatever reason the DARdpi site could not be accessed for well over 24 hrs.
The software It sure cleared up a lot of questions that I had about the mechanics of the Stephenson. I have also found evidence that there were at least two versions of the Stephensen: (1) One version operated on the cam system with the cams on the axle of the main drive wheels like in my drawing from a previous post. (2) The other version operates via an eccentric arm on the outside of the drive wheel (like the Walschaerts) I have attached a picture of the Stephenson with this arrangement.